James

Steve Smit speaks like a true professional. Why do we so rarely hear government officials and other South African authorities speak with such clarity and authority. Education!

helge

Well focused and all strength to your efforts Steve to stop this barbaric practice. What I would like to add is that if a people’s ‘culture’ is blind to the inhumanity of a practice, or cannot or will not be conscientized, it is indeed a very sad culture. As you mentioned this practice is not essential to the fruit festival. This particular practice gives authority to a type of chauvinism (dare I say ‘Zulu’ chauvinism?) that is insensitive to the ramifications of the violence perpetuated. It was very rich of President Zuma to call together artists and tell them to stop perpetuating violence in their stories!

Hand wringing idiot

Do you know the conditions that cattle and other animals are kept in before they killed for hamburger meat? It’s horrifying.

Do you know how many animals are killed each day for your braai? The brutality is unimaginable.

Do you know how commercial chicken farms operate?

But we prefer not to know, pretending that the animal products we buy in sterile plastic packaging are just the bounty of our modern civilisation.

Whereas this ritual doesn’t let us avert our eyes. It’s direct and openly brutal and powerfully symbolic.

If you are concerned about ending massive worldwide cruelty, degradation and pain to animals, stop eating meat.

Then we can begin the debate on imposing values, rather than just hypocrisy.

mkhonto

leave the zulus be now, leave them be.

Ntombi NTO

Excuse you – barbaric???

I am sure that there are many barbaric practices that we have been subjected to by our malin deprived invaders! Case in point: hunting as a sport. In africa we eat to survive not for sheer pleasure. Its amazing how when the indigenous people of Africa were still in charge we had no endangered animals – at least not to the extent of now.

uKweshama is custom , at least the umbilical cord that binds us blacks to the continent has not been severed. There are reasons why the animal is slaughtered like that and why it is bled out like that.

people must stop commenting on things they dont know anything about. Whites have taken so much from us – leave us be with our ancient customs. We follow these customs for a reason.

shadow1976

It always amazes me that certain people form certain cultures always perscribe what is wrong or right to others without understanding roots of the accused culture.

Helge you are calling a practice that you know nothing about “barbaric”! Who appointed you the standard bearer of human culture?

You posses the mind of your forefathers, who came with the understanding that those in the dark continent need to be enlightened. The very Word of God teaches love for all.
SAPC is not the final authority on animal treatment.

What is barbaric to you is a way of life to others.

Paul

I agree that the use of the word ‘barbaric’ is unfortunate, perhaps we should talk about cruelty instead. I don’t believe in God, but if she exists she would I am sure, want you to extend your love to all her creation – human animals and non-human animals alike.

helge

oh unenlightened ones….let me explain……please listen carefully…

THE STRENGTH OF A CULTURE RESTS IN ITS ABILITY TO GROW AND ADAPT.

not in its ability to be intransigent and stagnate in a mire of self righteous cruelty.

What a sad indictment of a culture where to torture an animal is considered ‘cultural’.

When apartheid crumbled (it could not adapt to change) the ENTIRE WORLD

rushed in with it because it had kept everyone shackled with its outdated and outmoded

‘norms’. Thank goodness there were those who fought against it (including me.)

Now where is the ’strength’ in being able to stick your fingers in a bulls eyes by trying to kill it?

DO YOU NOT GET IT?

for your so called ritual you may just want to even the score a bit and go one on one!!

my so called ancestors WERE barbaric!

we now live according to standardized norms of animal slaughter in order to FEED THE WORLD!

this was not MY invention. hello?

helge

oh unenlightened ones….let me explain……please listen carefully…

THE STRENGTH OF A CULTURE RESTS IN ITS ABILITY TO GROW AND ADAPT.

not in its ability to be intransigent and stagnate in a mire of self righteous cruelty.

What a sad indictment of a culture where to torture an animal is considered ‘cultural’.

When apartheid crumbled (it could not adapt to change) the ENTIRE WORLD

rushed in with it because it had kept everyone shackled with its outdated and outmoded

‘norms’. Thank goodness there were those who fought against it (including me.)

and dear ‘hand wringing idiot’ – .what is so ‘powerful’ about torturing an animal? Are you insane?

and to prove how presumptuous you are – i do not eat meat!

Now where is the ’strength’ in being able to stick your fingers in a bulls eyes by trying to kill it?

DO YOU NOT GET IT?

my so called ancestors WERE barbaric! But I now consider myself belonging to the HUMAN

RACE, not a cultural group! I think this puts me WAY AHEAD. I embrace the global community

and am willing to learn from my mistakes.

We now live according to standardized norms of animal slaughter in order to FEED THE WORLD!

This was not MY invention. hello?

And I WELCOME any criticism of MY (south african) CULTURE anytime.

The point of the animal rights intervention is to find a SOLUTION to this barbaric practice!

Barry Edy

Hi Helga Well said we need many more like you and Steve Smit. My letters to the 6 editors in Durban were ignored except Andrew Donaldson made reference to it. Judge van der Reyden who I have met makes some ludicrous statements in today’s Mercury. I have written a reply to the Mercury and the Daily News who I hope now have the balls to publish. I would like to send you the article and my reply so if you can let me have your email I will send it to you. You have got to see what rubbish is written in Durban in support of the bull murder. 1 IFP politician comparing it to catching fish. These are the morons who govern us. Please hammer Oprah for her cowardly and hypocritical stance apparantly she believes that she has Zulu DNA and does not want to offend her King. Can you believe it?

Barry Edy

Buruxa

Dear Barry Edy

Your just one of the few that have been dropped of on our precious continent, matter of fact i wonder what you call yourself AFRICAN OR EUROPEAN. Your a missed informed guest in our backyard that has the nerve to question our AFRICAN customs and believes and if so it bothers you why don’t you just pack your SH*T and hit the road the road or rather the sea. EZASE AFRIKA foreigner. Leave us before you rergret ever setting your racsit feet on our land but yet again where will you go, they don’t want you dark skin ones in Europe. Yoh undiyazi nxelele’

get real

hey barry long time since i read such sense…..

Xola

Futsek to smith, who is he to duopt our culture? does he know where we came from? They should start with those whites who kill animals for sport and still not eat the damn animal..This is our culture and it is what we believe in..Very sad when whites were killing our brothers like animals and yet again now they try to change our culture…That is why government should not be involved in this and we will carry on with our culture…If someone does not like this, they should stay away others !!!!

Paul

Xola – that’s not a very nice thing to say (It’s ‘voetsek’ by the way). I agree with you that Sport Hunting should be banned. People behave abominably towards each other and towards non-human animals – let us join hands and condemn the causing of suffering wherever it occurs.

Mina

TO HELL WITH THE SETTLERS THIS IS AFRICA. WE CAN’T BE TOLD BY IMMIGRANTS WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO IN OUR OWN CONTINENT. THE SETTLERS MUST GO TO EUROPE AND MAKE RULES FOR EUROPEANS AND NOT FOR AFRICANS IN AFRICA.

russell

Immigrants and settlers?
So where are you from?

russell

Of course the Immigrants should also take there customs and technology with them when they return to Europe right?

Paul

Mina, Your ancestors were also ’settlers’ in this part of the world not so very long ago. Your racist anger does nothing for nation-building. You have no greater claim to live here than I do.

bill

This is typical of these monkeys – they think we “settlers” or “immigrants” even though we and our fathers before us were born here! Maybe we should leave for Europe and take our stuff with us, so that these monkeys can go back to beating their drums and living in mud huts.

Senzangakhona

Gone are the days when our forefathers and grandmothers were allured by white culture as the best in the world. We are not like them and never allow to be taken for granted like them. It is 50/50 now as we also have access to vast information that our ancestors were not. You may choose anytype of derogative words to describe what we adore as part of our culture but that will not help. Go on and practise your civilised culture is you may want it to be referred. Unfortunately, what is barbaric to you is civilised to us. This is an attribute of colonialist who rob us of our land with an attitude that it was in the hands of the barbarians. I wonder if you can call it as barbaric not to have chase all white people away from this country. Hence I would say whatever you can do with our own culture, nothing will stop us practising what is our. I wonder why your seniors gave a go ahead to publish this derogative article. We are the Zulus and nobody will take anything belong to us. This is a recipe for a hatred which is similar to what previously caused war.

Paul

Senzangakhona – You raise, as many others have done, the question of culture and whether culture should be beyond criticism. I don’t believe that it is. Unlike racism, sexism or speciesism which involves contempt or discrimination on purely arbitrary grounds which are beyond the control of the victim, cultural values involve free choice.

I cannot choose to be white or male, but I can choose which aspects of my culture I think are important and which are not. I try to make choices in a reasoned way rather than simply accepting that because X was done in the past, it should be done in the future.

Finally, as mentioned elsewhere I want to make the point that this country does not belong to you alone – your ancestors were also settlers at one time.

makhwelefinqana

i understand that for some people’s religion a cow is regarded as a god . in africa a cow is never a god. so we apologise to all those whom we have offended by killing that god.but unfortunatately and on the contrary our gods needs a bull they need the bull to be killed with bare hands, they smile at seeing young brave man killing a bull. the animal right activists ( whites) must know that our values are not the same even if they don’t like the bull killing ritual they just have to accept it. and who is not babaric anyway we are all barbaric in one way or another. and whites are the most barbaric people in the world but the difference is that they try to mordenise their barbaric tendences and they are good in doing it.

Paul

It’s a racist assumption to assume that all Animal Rights Activists are white. You make a good point though about ‘modernising barbaric tendencies’ – factory farming of animals is such an example.

Zulu o mnyama we ndlela zimhlophe

If the animal rights movement people know what’s good for them they will let this one go. They will never win this fight even if the courts were to rule in their favor, that decision will only serve to polarize South African and illuminate the racial tensions that still exist in this country that have been so meticulously disguised . It will also serve to isolate the movement and banish them to the periphery of obscurity and irrelevance . I would be surprised if they say they don’t care if the vast number of South African (vast number would be black in this case) were to start to pigeon hole them as a white suprimest organization that fights for white issues and very elitist in their approach. They seem very bankrupt and lack any sense of legitimate course. I thereof suggest that they take up the fight against canned hunting and see if they will pursue this in the same vigor and enthusiasm

Paul

Yes, let’s take up the fight against sport hunting (canned of otherwise) ! On the other hand, to equate Animal Rights with White Supremacism – Eish Bra! – what were you smoking when you wrote that??

Laureen

Please people, let me explain. this is not “culture” it is violence. Africa is riddled with so-called culture which really is a cover for vioence against animals, children and women who are helpless and defenceless. Female Genital Mutilation – where a girl aged 7 or 8 is forcibly held down while her genitals are sliced off – is also Culture for many millions across Africa. So tell me, people, is that what you want for your daughters? O, but why not? Its culture, so lets respect it!! Most of the violence in Africa that pretends to be culture is perpetrated by men against women and children, and of course, helpless animals that have no voice. Does that make it okay? please can someone explain the logic of this to me, I would be truly grateful. I would really like to understand how stomping a bull to death and ripping out its eyes makes you a better man? Now I know that this does not apply to all African men, so why dont the African men who are not violent, aggressive, chauvinist and arrogant stand up and be counted for a change?? And then, explain to me please, how making teenage boys take part in such a ritual is going to make them better men and husbands when they grow up one day? All they are learning is that violent and arrogant behaviour – whether it causes pain or not – is somehow their “right” and their “culture”., and it is a small step from beating an animal to beating a woman or child, and there is much international research to support this. So please don’t go on about how important the Zulu culture is to the world – culture is there to be improved and to change with the times. If we as South Africans want to be recognised and respected on the global stage and to be acknowledged as the leaders of Africa (and it certainly looks like we do, listening to our leaders) then we need to understand that we too must conform to the cultural and moral and ethical values that the rest of the civilised world accepts and tries to live by, and not hide behind an outdated, arrogant and chauvinist “culture”. I do hope that on December 6, someone is going to write and tell us all how good they feel and how much better they are as men because they stomped an animal to death on Saturday…….. Alternatively, please post a video from the ritual, as the Court requested, that shows us differently, that this is NOT what is happening in the name of Zulu “culture”.

Colette

Thank you Laureen. The real men out there, let’s hear from you and please, people, let’s dispense with the pointless name calling and stick to the discussion.

russell

But that would not be African would it?

Madoda

Barbaric is a very relative term. In other religions and cultures ae Jews and Muslims they mutilate the ***** of baby boys as part of their culture or religion. Like the bull these baby boys have no say to what is going to happen to them. It is only when they grew up that they realise that the barbaric culture or religion deprived them of their foreskin. I’ve never heard of anyone talking or going to court to fight for the rights of the baby boys not to be mutilated in the name of religion or culture. For Africans they wait until the boy is grown up so that they can make their own choice. Note the difference.

In Britain Fox hunting is a popular sport. Killing foxes for fun- Is this not barbaric white male chauvinism. Get real

russell

Is torturing the bull not barbaric black male chauvinism? get real.

Paul

Yes, fox-hunting is cruel and has now been declared illegal in the UK. Interestingly, this was opposed vehemently and vociferously by a section of the population who claimed that it threatened ‘countryside values’.

Mbhubhudlo

I am an African who does not have to explain his practices to anyone!! If I kill a cow in my house (in former White suburb), those who might be offended need to be notified early so that they are not exposed. Courtesy.

Similarly, I dont get this cry about the Zulu kings brutal killing of the bull. White people should go fishing and let Black people do their own thing, without any interference!!

For the record, which cow said ‘it was fine for me to be electrified before being killed’? “Please people I prefer to be killed in a western civilised manner, not this Barbaric Zulu way…”

Killing is killing!!

This was just a sad reminder of how some white people in this country think of black people – barbaric!! hiding behind Animal Rights while voicing their racist ideologies…

Ohh the Court that you approached has spoken!!! And who is laughing now? Barbaric people I presume!
And they might slaughter more with the World Cup coming!! Fasten your seatbelt babe!!

Stay Away from that that does not affect you!! Go Mountain Climbing!

Amandla!!

get real

are zulus idiots?

Simphiwe

No get real, Zulus are not idiots, apparently you seems to be.

NgobamaKhosi

It seems as if white men is God,they make the rules for every human being on earth, well let make something clear, the Zulu’s do not bow to anyone who is born of a mother,eat ,sleep, grow and think he is smart because he or she read this much books, and die lonely the wife left him as well as the children and that person who is so careless can come and make rules for every human in Africa? They bow to one God” the Creator” The ritual of a bull is not your business, we w what is your business money, manipulate, kill more blacks, gold, diamond and so forth. the whites they think they smart they should fix what they have done with the planet earth, it is slowly dying aghh shame they thought they knew what they were doing and they actually did not know that their civilisation will actual kill the earth or who is barbaric the one who killed the earth for the sake of having fun or the ones who thanks God, well let see white men with blue eyes (Serpent) is the best thing that ever happen on earth?????

Every dog has it day but your day blue eyes men is over, you cant even think straight, ooh i red on another blog, the Afrikaners and English think this is their promise land apperently they say they are the lost children of the Israel, God gave them this land, I think the Whites are fFraudster’s . White men we are tired, please keep your thin lips zipped! Respect me and i shall respect you, if you want peace, peace shall prevails! That will happen when you leave my people and their ways alone! “The common goal of 10 million Africans is respect as human beings, the God-given right to be a human being. Our common goal is to obtain the human rights that white has been denying us. We can never get civil rights from the whites in South Africa until our human rights are first restored. We will never be recognized as citizens there until we are first recognized as humans, who have rights and freedom to do their culture without the interference of the Former Slave Master!

The Zulu’s take this personal! Who ever is involved should apologise to the King and the African Nations!

NgobamaKhosi

If I have a cup of coffee that is too strong for me because it is too black, I weaken it by pouring cream into it. I integrate it with cream. If I keep pouring enough cream in the coffee, pretty soon the entire flavor of the coffee is changed; the very nature of the coffee is changed. If enough cream is poured in, eventually you don’t even know that I had coffee in this cup. That what these white folks want to happen they want to turn us African folks into white, by gradually telling us that we are barbaric we should be civilised just like them, Let me tell you somethinng we still know what you did last summer, Laureen, you not criticise something you dont know, you will end up being confused like Paul and Russell! Shame Paul is trying to be diplomatic but it hard, he can help it, he has blue eyes he still doesn’t understand why Zulu’s does the ritual, why the Hebrews Break the neck of the bull and throw it in the Hill, Muslims slaughter the sheeps for Allah,go and research , aghh sorry Paul, Russell and laureen and the rest of the white population who dont understands why, you normally get it wrong, but it okay maybe you will understand in another lifetime that you dont make the rules. If you think its wrong leave it God, he is the Judge not you, next time you pick the fight with the Zulu’s you should be careful on the subjects!